Posts by Marvin Shilmer

Alas! Every time I watch the video that item leaps off the screen at me. I didn't bring it up before because it's a sideshow. But now that you brought it up, I agree.

The right thing for the local Chief to have done was to form his opinions once the investigation was complete, and not before. Sharing an opinion prior to that is very unprofessional, and can be very harmful to the department's morale. You're right, though. It's political.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Is there any evidence that the girl in question committed a crime?

If someone is interfering with an officer's ability to control chaos at a scene of reported crime then that person is subject to arrest for interfering with a police officer discharging their duty. Often what happens is the individual is neutralized and when things calm down they are released. Just because a person is cuffed does not mean they're going to be arrested for criminal interference, but it is a criminal offense nevertheless.

By "neutralize" I mean an action that essentially removes an individual from interfering. If too many people are meandering around causing needless distraction the neutralizing act might be an instruction sit down and stay in place. If the person complies then that person is no longer interfering. Alternately the same person might be asked to get out of the scene of investigation. Basically this means, 'Remove yourself from the chaos so I can watch for dangers yet unidentified.' If the person complies then any interference they were causing is likely to be neutralized. When someone is doing something that interferes with a police officer carrying out their duty and does not comply with instructions that would remove that interference, the individual will likely find themselves being physically restrained because the officer has other fish to fry and he or she needs to act for the individual who refuses to act responsibly for themselves, the police officers and everyone else's safety.

In the McKinney pool party incident my opinion is the bikini clad gal was interfering with police attempting to control chaos at a scene where violence had been reported.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

The original narrative is specifically a dual one; that there is an institutional problem with how police treat minorities as compared to others in the U.S., and has been for over a century, and, also how police treat citizens in general.

And I when it comes to policing, I don't see any mistreatment based on racial minority in the McKinney pool party incident and I don't see anything I'd fire a police officer over.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

I've been asked privately about the white kid who videoed this episode not being instructed to sit down or leave.

Contemporary police training has spent considerable time addressing the growing and popular practice of common citizens (i.e., not credentialed photo journalists) videoing just about anything and everything, including policing activity. The commonness of this practice together with training has led police officers to be less concerned with people taking video. That is to say, videographers are, these days, less apt to be viewed as an interference or threat (in a melee a camera could be mistaken as a weapon). To the contrary, though someone holding an object in their hand at an incident is going to get the attention of a well-trained police officer, once an officer realizes the person is videoing he/she understands the action of that person and does not view it as a threat or as interference so long as they keep themselves from whatever fray it is they're recording and do not otherwise make movements that could raise alarm.

The kid who videoed this thing says something to the effect that to the police it was like he wasn't even there because he was not instructed to sit down or leave. Because this kid is white, to him this suggested racial bias. Though his assessment is a possibility, it is not the only one. An alternative is that the officers recognized his presence and what he was doing and that it represented no threat or interference, and possibly that he did not remotely fit any profile of subjects reportedly involved in a violent exchange. He was not roaming around getting in anyone's way. He stayed out of the way. If he wasn't viewed as causing interference then he was left to keep doing what he was doing, which was standing out of the way and filming.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

When things happen all the time to certain groups of people in a country it is sensible for people to compare past experiences with current ones... My experience across this country and from family and from friends is that police often lack respect and take liberties they should not.
happens frequently with minorities. The department of justice is aware of it. Recorded history is a testament to it.
people March because they experience it.
the police chief said this officers actions were indefensible.
This country has a history and a current story of those in power using it unfairly because they think the rules do not apply.

When it comes to forming objective determinations of the McKinney pool party incident, what you suggest above is dicto simpliciter.

Until a commonality can be objectively established it’s a logical error to treat a particular situation as though it’s general in nature.

For sake of time and productivity I opt to stick with objective review.

In this case I observed an officer react to a teenager because of that teenager's behavior and not because of that teenager's skin color.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

Those were kids... not police officers. However if you want to do this we can.

I don't see any need to "do this" and THAT was my whole point of sharing the experience, which seems go far over your head. Objectivity would have us refrain from transposing one experience atop another as though there is commonality until that commonality is objectively determined.

I don't see a police officer acting toward the bikini clad gal because she is black. Apparently you do, and it appears you do this because you're transposing one experience atop this one and without regard for the horrible conduct of the bikini clad gal. I see a police officer acting toward the bikini clad gal because of her behavior.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

"Officers are citizens, and also public servants."
Not in the USofA
Officers are demi-gods in the united states along with former military veterans. In the eyes of the 40 - 80 year olds they are to be praised regardless of their actions. Especially in the Southern States and the Mid-West

Painting police officers and the general public with that broad brush is ridiculous.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

They have no authority over the public *unless* someone is committing or suspected of committing a crime.

In every jurisdiction I'm familiar with there are laws against interfering with the work of a police officer. If someone is interfering with the work of a police officer that person is subject to being contained, probably by having them sit down or, if deemed necessary, cuffed. If in this instance an individual repeatedly fails to respond as instructed a police officer will likely act to cuff the person and, if there is any resistance, force will be met with equal-plus force until the interference is contained.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Marvin Shilmer

The Italian police preyed on the black community this way. The stories could go on and on.

When I was a boy we once lived for several years in a community comprised nearly entirely of black families. As a white kid I was a minority in that neighborhood. I found myself preyed upon by black kids in the neighborhood. I often had to run home from where I was playing to avoid being beat on by groups of black boys. I had a two mile walk to school. Every morning and every afternoon. I had to constantly change my route because black kids would wait for me to push me around and see what i had on me of value. For being white.

You tell me: Should I look at all other situations through the lens of that experience, as though blacks are out to get the whites? I don't think so, and I hope I'm right!

The McKinney pool party incident is not Newark, New Jersey.